Gorgonmilk here. I have had similar points brought to me before about the general direction of Dolmenwood, and while I understand the sentiments, I think the dark undercurrent of Wormskin is still there. Gavin has made things more palatable on the surface to a wider audience in the interest of appealing to a larger sector of the RPG market and avoiding controversy, but he's also added a ton of material that wasn't there in the Wormskin days. All of this is part of why I stepped back. I'm nowhere near as prolific a writer/layout artist as Gavin, and I'm generally more intractable when it comes to altering the work. Gavin is creating for himself as well as others. I'm way more selfish and consequently less successful. I've been in hibernation for a long time. I would love any pointers as to where to publish dark fantasy material.
The Autarch Discord server might be a good place to start - it has a very nice atmosphere & there are a lot of fans of dark fantasy material there. Plus Autarch's biggest game, ACKS, is well suited to the more classic stuff in Wormskin: https://discord.gg/cRpNcse2kv
I feel that these changes are aligned with the assumption in D&D “the current thing edition” & Pathfinder that if a creature is intelligent it must a) be playable, and hence b) not be evil by nature. This results in blandness because not being evil by nature means a group that is evil must be coerced into it somehow since “no intelligent free willed beings would choose to be evil” or else total moral relativism “the orcs have the same right to be in my village as I do and it’s just racist wish-fulfilment to fight against their reclamation of their native title”.
TLDR; the furries are to blame. And R.A. Salvatore.
I'm so glad I still have the Wormskin zines and the DWP 'final' PDFs. The kickstarter is an embarassment, and I'm glad I backed out of it when he announced the first of these changes as I could see the trend coming already.
I backed Dolmenwood on the strength of Wormskin. I'll reserve judgement until I have the actual books in hand, but I can't say I am a fan of the changes I am aware of. Kudos for speaking your mind, especially on a platform as hostile as Reddit.
The Kickstarter was so quickly funded. I wonder how many of those backers were under the impression it would be much more similar to Wormskin and how many expected a generic fantasy setting. What even is folk horror if the things that disgust and horrify are taken out?
Boy I'm glad I took a pass on this Kickstarter. While on the surface much of the "edgy" content is technically minor and you COULD add it back in, but if I'm paying for a product why should I have to do extra work?
I've been burned before by this kind of behavior and I have less than zero patience for it. I loved the setting Interface Zero 2.0 for Savage Worlds so of course I backed 3.0. Interface Zero is a cyberpunk setting after a US Civil War with an uneasy peace between a Religious Fanatic middle America and more liberal successor states. It adds fun Spy Thriller elements and Religious Fanatic Paramilitaries as enemies you can throw at your players in addition to the usual Gangers and Corporate Agents. I was actually asked to do some writing for the setting
As more details of 3.0 started to come out, I started to get cold feet. He wrote that the Religious Fanatics launched a surprise attack that overran everyone else. This was in direct contradiction to the idea that the North American Coalition could defeat any of the successor states individually, but not all of them at once. It quickly became obvious that he was sacrificing one of the most interesting elements of the setting: the Uneasy Peace, to throw a temper tantrum over 2016. Then the delays mounted until IZ 3.0 wasn't even done by 2020. So now not only is one of the most interesting elements of the IZ setting being sacrificed for a political statement, it was sacrificed for the sake of a statement that was already dated by the time the book came out. The last straw was the author deciding to remove Police as player character options. I demanded that my work be removed and a full refund.
Winter's Daught is also a good example sanitization. In the original release, encounter area 2 was "Sacrifice at the Whything Stones," and featured a willing sacrifice. It was later changed to "the Whything Stones." No sacrifice. No Drune.
Gorgonmilk here. I have had similar points brought to me before about the general direction of Dolmenwood, and while I understand the sentiments, I think the dark undercurrent of Wormskin is still there. Gavin has made things more palatable on the surface to a wider audience in the interest of appealing to a larger sector of the RPG market and avoiding controversy, but he's also added a ton of material that wasn't there in the Wormskin days. All of this is part of why I stepped back. I'm nowhere near as prolific a writer/layout artist as Gavin, and I'm generally more intractable when it comes to altering the work. Gavin is creating for himself as well as others. I'm way more selfish and consequently less successful. I've been in hibernation for a long time. I would love any pointers as to where to publish dark fantasy material.
There has definitely been a change in the zeitgeist of the OSR, and I think Gavin is just following that.
I personally dislike that, and I dislike how most of the Wormskin material has been taken out back and shot.
To me, it's crucial that creators make something true to them.
If you're looking OSR-wise (whatever that term actually means nowadays), there's a few options:
- Swords & Wizardry Complete Revised
- Hyperborea 3E (formerly Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea)
- Adventurer Conqueror King System 2E (coming out soon-ish)
A good chunk of people are just publishing straight for AD&D 1e nowadays, having given up on a lot of the modern OSR publishers.
A bit of intractability may be the most important trait in our age. Do not succumb, do not comply, do not surrender.
Would be great to have you back in some form.
The Autarch Discord server might be a good place to start - it has a very nice atmosphere & there are a lot of fans of dark fantasy material there. Plus Autarch's biggest game, ACKS, is well suited to the more classic stuff in Wormskin: https://discord.gg/cRpNcse2kv
I feel that these changes are aligned with the assumption in D&D “the current thing edition” & Pathfinder that if a creature is intelligent it must a) be playable, and hence b) not be evil by nature. This results in blandness because not being evil by nature means a group that is evil must be coerced into it somehow since “no intelligent free willed beings would choose to be evil” or else total moral relativism “the orcs have the same right to be in my village as I do and it’s just racist wish-fulfilment to fight against their reclamation of their native title”.
TLDR; the furries are to blame. And R.A. Salvatore.
I'm so glad I still have the Wormskin zines and the DWP 'final' PDFs. The kickstarter is an embarassment, and I'm glad I backed out of it when he announced the first of these changes as I could see the trend coming already.
I backed Dolmenwood on the strength of Wormskin. I'll reserve judgement until I have the actual books in hand, but I can't say I am a fan of the changes I am aware of. Kudos for speaking your mind, especially on a platform as hostile as Reddit.
Thank you very much.
The Kickstarter was so quickly funded. I wonder how many of those backers were under the impression it would be much more similar to Wormskin and how many expected a generic fantasy setting. What even is folk horror if the things that disgust and horrify are taken out?
That's a good question. I definitely thought there was going to be more Wormskin left in than there actually was.
Boy I'm glad I took a pass on this Kickstarter. While on the surface much of the "edgy" content is technically minor and you COULD add it back in, but if I'm paying for a product why should I have to do extra work?
I've been burned before by this kind of behavior and I have less than zero patience for it. I loved the setting Interface Zero 2.0 for Savage Worlds so of course I backed 3.0. Interface Zero is a cyberpunk setting after a US Civil War with an uneasy peace between a Religious Fanatic middle America and more liberal successor states. It adds fun Spy Thriller elements and Religious Fanatic Paramilitaries as enemies you can throw at your players in addition to the usual Gangers and Corporate Agents. I was actually asked to do some writing for the setting
As more details of 3.0 started to come out, I started to get cold feet. He wrote that the Religious Fanatics launched a surprise attack that overran everyone else. This was in direct contradiction to the idea that the North American Coalition could defeat any of the successor states individually, but not all of them at once. It quickly became obvious that he was sacrificing one of the most interesting elements of the setting: the Uneasy Peace, to throw a temper tantrum over 2016. Then the delays mounted until IZ 3.0 wasn't even done by 2020. So now not only is one of the most interesting elements of the IZ setting being sacrificed for a political statement, it was sacrificed for the sake of a statement that was already dated by the time the book came out. The last straw was the author deciding to remove Police as player character options. I demanded that my work be removed and a full refund.
Winter's Daught is also a good example sanitization. In the original release, encounter area 2 was "Sacrifice at the Whything Stones," and featured a willing sacrifice. It was later changed to "the Whything Stones." No sacrifice. No Drune.